Many small business owners think they don’t need legal help until they’re facing a lawsuit or some other major legal issue. In fact, says Ayesha Chidolue, it should be part of their budget from day one… when the business is just an idea.
If you can’t afford to consult with a lawyer at the outset to make sure you are doing it right, she says, perhaps you aren’t ready to own a business.
We also talk about the challenges of starting a solo law firm and setting it up for future growth when moving to a totally new community where you have no connections.
Listen in to discover…
- The simplest – and most effective – ways to protect your intellectual property
- Why hiring a local attorney is better than using an online service for your legal needs
- The 70/30 strategy for balancing work and family life
- How to create a mastermind group – and who should be in it
- And more
Mentioned in This Episode: www.chidoluelaw.com
Davina Frederick: Hello and welcome to The Solo to CEO Podcast, where we provide a mix of powerful, thought provoking yet practical information to assist you in your transformation from solo to CEO of a high impact, high revenue generating business. I’m your host Davina Frederick and I’m here today with Ayesha Chidolue, founder and CEO of the Chidolue Law Firm. The Chidolue Law Firm is based in Florida and focuses on business and intellectual property law. Welcome Ayesha. I’m so pleased you’re here with us on the Solo to CEO Podcast. How are you today?
Ayesha Chidolue: Thank you. I’m good. Thank you so much for having me today.
Davina Frederick: So tell us, how you got started in the practice of law.
Ayesha Chidolue: Oh okay, so as you said I have a law firm here in Florida, so my story never started that way and I never intended to actually own my own law firm. So I went to law school essentially to go work for somebody else and I ended up working on Wall Street doing securities M&A for a couple of years. And while going through that process it really wasn’t what I expected when I came out of law school. And the impact that I thought I would have on people, I didn’t have that impact because you were doing it at such a large scale that corporations don’t really care about me or what I’m doing for them. When I say corporations I mean super, mega companies. So I was really burnt out. I decided that I wanted to take a break from law.
And so in the process of taking a break from law, we moved, when I say we myself and I moved to Florida, and I decided let me go the human resource route. I like to interact with people and communicate with people and I have a degree in Human Resources Management, so I can really get down to the nitty gritty with people.
And while I was doing that, I enjoyed doing it and I enjoyed doing the legal employment part of human resources. But really what the catalyst was that led to me starting my own firm was an incident in my mom’s own business. My mom is a very successful business owner all her life, or all my life. I’ve known her as a successful business owner. And she made some really big mistakes that could have basically wiped out her entire business.
And I remember getting a call from her here in Florida, oh my goodness I need help. I need to fix this, so fix fast. So it was a very stressful time, but we’re able to recover all the funds and the things that she made a wrong investment in under the business. And go through the whole lawsuit and process and recover her money.
And when I did that for her, I just thought to myself, there’s so many people like my mom who on paper, they’re very successful business women or business men, but they’re not taking the proper legal steps, or they’re not contacting legal counsel until they’re in the situation which she was in. So why don’t I help people from the beginning of their business or while their business is not yet in trouble, to keep them on that same path. And that really was the light bulb for me and it meant that I had to take the Florida Bar again. Because I already had the New York Bar. And so I took the Florida Bar. So once I passed my exam that’s when I hung up my shingle and started the firm.
Davina Frederick: Yeah, I remember when you and I met, you had such an interesting story because I knew that you had worked on Wall Street and had years of experience as a lawyer. And you and I met here in Florida and you had just become a lawyer here in Florida. And I knew that you worked in human resources and I thought what an interesting amount of experience that you had. And what a benefit to work with business owners, small business owners, and to help them with their businesses.
And so talk to us about the Chidolue Law Firm and what the type of services that you provide, and how you serve your clients.
Ayesha Chidolue: Okay. So when I say I’m a business attorney, I like to also lump in intellectual property into it. The reason being is that most businesses need to protect their intellectual property. So most time it’s hand in hand and I often do immigration.
So let me first start with a business. So with businesses, I help business owners from startups, from when it’s an idea, to when you’re thriving. And when it’s an idea, I like to help businesses by helping them, counseling them and creating the right entity for them. So if somebody came to me and said I want to form an LLC, I’m not just going to form an LLC. I’m going to want to understand what their plans for their business are, what the future growth for the business is. Do you have a good or a service that you eventually want to get investors? Do you want to get venture capitalists? Do you eventually want to sell off the business? Because the answers to that is what’s really going to determine the kind of entity you should be, not just oh you know I looked on Google and they said I should be an S corp or an LLC.
So I really take on and that’s where I pull in from my human resource background where I say like I enjoy interacting with my clients, I’m really understanding, and being a part of that growth. So that’s something that I like to bring to the table. And then when I have thriving businesses, you know most of the council that we’re doing are related to either agreements of contracts that they’re entering into or their employees, and whether their employees are being designated properly as exempt or non-exempt employees. Their handbooks, and making sure that their handbooks are legally compliant. And you have things there that you should and things that you shouldn’t have are taken out.
And then a lot of times with the businesses are thriving, some of them start to think about franchising their businesses or getting into a licensing agreement. And when you want to do those things, if you haven’t up until that time handled your intellectual property, you want to make sure that your business is trademarked. You want to make sure that if you have high level employees, that they understand that whatever work they’re doing is intellectual property and it’s treated as part of the business.
So a lot of times with smaller businesses, what I’ve observed is that they share too much. Basically they give those employees everything that they need to take that business and go start a competing business against them without really legally safeguarding themselves. So those are some of the things that I look for and I counsel my clients on. Say I know you, so like this person has been with you for X amount of years, but when there’s conflict, people don’t think that way. They just go and do what they need to do. So that’s what I do from a business and an intellectual property side.
And then with immigration, obviously the way the United States is now, it’s very difficult. Like things where you would get approved easier because you provided everything, is just a much more tasking journey. I’m first generation immigrant myself, so I’m able to put myself in the same position as the clients who I serve. And a lot of immigrants who come for either family immigration, which is they’re getting married or for their parents or for their children, or business integration, don’t really understand the immigration process, other than just certain stuff. They don’t understand that nitty gritty and the intimate details of supporting documentations they need to have. So one of the things that I do is I counsel them on that and explain the process to them because a lot of them don’t know. Or are so terrified of let’s say they’re a permanent resident of Lebanese, leaving the country because they don’t know if they will be allowed to come back.
So I guess my unique approach is that I really consider myself to be a counselor to my clients, so I don’t want to every be somebody who is just a transactional work, you know you give me a job to do and here’s your document, here you go. I want my clients to feel like they can ask me questions and come to me and I can guide them towards the right answer.
Davina Frederick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
So let me ask you this, I remember back when I had my practice and I was counseling small businesses. And one of the challenges is often time small business owners don’t think they need a lawyer until they have a litigation issue, until there is a lawsuit.
So what would you say to … What advice do you have for small business owners, and I know as attorneys, we know that small business owners need lawyers for a whole lot of reasons for them, but most small business owners think I’m on a budget and I can’t afford an attorney-
Ayesha Chidolue: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Davina Frederick: … for these things and I can do things myself, so let’s talk about that, let’s talk about some of the things that a small business owner might need an attorney for long before, and hopefully to avoid, hopefully they never need a lawyer for litigation. And especially if they hire a lawyer for other reasons, they might never need one. And let’s talk about some of the things they might need a lawyer for first and why they would need a lawyer.
Ayesha Chidolue: For it.
Davina Frederick: And how they can, how that would benefit them.
Ayesha Chidolue: Okay.
So I have to always use this phrase, a penny wise a pound foolish.
Davina Frederick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ayesha Chidolue: So most businesses when they’re starting, they allocate budgets for different things based on what they think is important or not important. And you know outside of me being a lawyer, when you step outside of being a lawyer, your budget should always include a lawyer when you start out your business. Because the first thing that should happen when you’re starting a business is business planning.
Business planning means we need to be able to know, like one of the things I talked about earlier, what the right entity for your business is, or the type of business you have. And how it’s going to affect you moving forward or growing the business, both from a sales perspective, if you want to sell the business, from a partnership perspective, and also from a tax perspective, whether it’s more beneficial for you to be an S corp or a C corp and the requirements. Because sometimes some people go and they form an S corp and then they bring a partner that’s a corporation for instance. And I’m like you can’t be an S corp and then have a partner that’s an organization. Or, sometimes some people go to LegalZoom and say you know what, I’m just going to give LegalZoom, ask them to set up my entity and let them set up my corporation. And then you go and let’s say you go on LegalZoom and they set up your corporation. LegalZoom is not going to counsel you on what you need to do to make sure your corporation is right so that when you need to sell or give somebody a shareholder or make somebody a shareholder in the future you do it.
So let’s say LegalZoom forms that corporation for you and built, you only have one share. And then your company grows bigger. And this is a real life example. And then let’s say that a company grows bigger and you want to have, i.e. like employee/self-benefits, or you want to give some shares, and you only have one share in the company. There’s only one share in the company. LegalZoom doesn’t care. All they care is that that’s what you asked for and that’s what they’re going to give you.
So that’s the reason why when you’re starting a business, you need that. And then the same thing, when you are already in a thriving business and you haven’t contacted legal counsel already, you need a business audit. You need to know, do you have any unwritten contracts that you could be liable for that somebody, that you implied? Do you have any written contracts that need to be readjusted? Do you have leases that put you in great penalties that you don’t know about?
And then of course, one that we see very common which leads to litigation is when you have a partner. A lot of times people come based on two people excited, you know we have a great business idea and we’re just going to work off of our own good will. We don’t need to operate in agreements, we’ll figure it out, or we’ll just pull up a document online. But they don’t really understand what they’re agreeing to. They don’t really understand, whatever they invest in the business, how it affects their capital account. They don’t really discuss in their agreement whether or not they’re going to be allowed to compete and start their own other businesses, or not start doing other businesses. And all those things usually come to a head when they disagree, and then it’s time to file a lawsuit.
But if they took the time to just go to an attorney in the beginning, to get their documents in order, it would cost them way less than when they have an issue … Way, way less by the way. And so that’s why I always do the saying of a penny wise pound foolish. So yes, don’t be a spend thrift when you start a new business. You have to allocate your budget wisely, but I think that every new business owner needs an attorney, legal counsel, and a business coach or mentor or somebody basically to steer you in the right direction. So that’s what I would say.
Davina Frederick: Right. And you also, that’s an expense then that you can write off too, legal fees.
Ayesha Chidolue: Exactly. It is an expense you can write off.
Davina Frederick: So talk to us about some of the other common mistakes that you see business owners make. I know you’ve been doing this for quite a while now and you’ve probably got some stories there of some situations that you’ve seen that … Obviously, you don’t want to disclose any sort of identifying details of any clients, but I’m sure you’ve got some common mistakes that you’ve seen have come up over and over again.
Ayesha Chidolue: Oh yeah.
Yeah. So a lot of times you see for instance, the biggest mistake is basically trying to do it yourself, that’s number one. Because there’s always a mistake when you try to do it yourself. Another common mistake is in the area of trademarks. You see a lot of mistakes there and then they come to you to try and clean it up when they’ve already put themselves so far off. So a lot of times people think I’m going to go read the tutorial on the trademark website and figure out how to file it. And then by the time they get the rejection with a notice to respond to the rejection, that’s when they come to you. And by that time there’s just so much wrong with the application that sometimes you’re better off starting all over again and paying money again. So that’s another area where they lose money.
Or, when people think that because they’re a small business, so they don’t need to protect their intellectual property. And to me, you’re better off protecting your intellectual property as a smaller business than when it becomes much bigger and there’s so much more to lose. Because if you don’t protect your intellectual property, let’s say you have a business name or a catchy slogan and you know you’re little local community you’re getting popular and a bigger giant comes. They can easily bully you and ask you to stop using the name. But if from the get go you protected your intellectual property, what you have is your registration and your certificate. And you know that you can fight them down because it is your intellectual property and you are the rightful owner.
And also becomes a leverage and a bargaining tool. Where you can then say, if you want me to stop this then pay me and I’ll change my name, because you have the trump card. So that’s one of the common mistakes that people make there.
And with immigration, one of the common mistakes that people make, especially in naturalization issues, or citizenship issues, or when people get married is that it relates more to your supporting documentation and not making sure that they have all that’s required on the interview date or when they’re putting in the application or knowing the deadlines. People think well we’re just going to do it half and half and everything will just work out or they won’t notice. But they will notice, and these things will get rejected. So I think it’s just really important for people to get some sort of legal counseling going into it so at least they can avoid those mistakes that are going to become costly in the long run.
Davina Frederick: Let’s talk about copyrights a little bit because I think that’s, there’s so much, people now are creating so much content for their businesses with using content marketing with creating videos and creating blogs and beams and all kinds of things that they’re sharing on social media. Whether that’s YouTube or Facebook or Instagram or whatever-
Ayesha Chidolue: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Davina Frederick: … whatever their favorite media is. And they’re creating all kinds of content. And of course we’re living in this sharable world, you’re wanting your content to go viral. You’re wanting your content to be shared. But how do you protect your content in a way that you get credit for it as the author of the content?
Ayesha Chidolue: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Davina Frederick: How do you protect your photographs, your copy? I’ve had an experience for instance where I’ve seen people take blogs. I mean when I was first started out blogging years ago, I had somebody take my blog and almost, and it was almost identical and they switched out the picture. What do you do to protect yourself in that context? How do you protect your intellectual property in the online Wild West out there?
Ayesha Chidolue: So definitely the online web has taken a life of its own and it is much more difficult to police and protect copyright, but it’s able to be done and it’s doable.
So with copyrights, first of all as you know once it has gotten out of your head and it’s being put in a tangible medium, you automatically have common law copyright protection.
Davina Frederick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ayesha Chidolue: Now if you find people using your product, there’s something called a … Your product, your blog, your pictures and all of that stuff, there’s something called a DMCA Takedown Notice. And so what I always advise every client is that you go directly to the website provider. So if it’s in Word Press, if it’s on Instagram, you go directly to Instagram. If it’s in Facebook, you go directly to Facebook. And if you feel somebody is infringing on your copyright, you have the option in most of those websites, there’s usually a link where you can contact legal. And it specifically says that if you feel like somebody’s violating your copyrights, send us an email here. And they are required to take it down while they do investigation to make sure that it’s not infringing on your copyright. So that’s one of the things that you can do once you find any platform online that somebody’s sharing your information without giving you credit.
Now if somebody is blatantly using your stuff to make money, so let’s say, I don’t know you have something like a copyright that they’re using to make money and you want to … Let’s say you have an image and they’re selling the image. One of the things, the best way for you to not only get them to stop but to get back the financial benefits that they’ve made from infringing on your copyright, is to register your copyright.
So while by default everyone has common law copyright of stuff that originated from you and that you’ve put in a tangible medium, it’s very hard to calculate damages or to get any damages until you register the copyright. The copyright process is not as lengthy as a trademark process. It’s less expensive and it’s super quick. Just get yourself copyrighted, your copyright registered and then once you have it registered you can just send them a cease and desist and demand the amount of money that you feel that you’ve lost because they’re using your stuff. That’s one of the other efficient ways of stopping it.
But to some extent, the more people share your stuff, the harder it is going to be to police everything. So it just really depends on how willing you as a copyright owner is to protect your copyright. And how proactive you are. If you’re notorious for protecting your copyright, they’re going to be less people inclined to use it. I mean let me use Girl Scouts for example. Girl Scout is notorious about protecting their intellectual property. They take down peoples stuff on the FC all the time. And so a lot of times … And same thing I think with Disney as well. So you just really have to be proactive. And I always say to people, it might be harder with copyright, but like with trademark, I always say to people, there’s a Google, I don’t know if it’s called Google Names or Google something, which I don’t remember right now, that allows you to put your name or your slogan in there so that any time it comes up, you get basically a notice. And that’s a good way to also police and see if people are infringing on your intellectual property.
Davina Frederick: And I guess there also, I guess that’s why you have on social cites like Facebook, there’s so many terms …
Ayesha Chidolue: The terms. Yeah.
Davina Frederick: Terms and conditions when you use the cites-
Ayesha Chidolue: Absolutely.
Davina Frederick: … to where you’re basically forgoing your rights. You just don’t realize it if you don’t read the terms.
Ayesha Chidolue: Mm-hmm (affirmative). You don’t read the terms, yeah.
Davina Frederick: So there’s more copyright infringements that float around on Facebook, they don’t really do us any good do they?
Ayesha Chidolue: Yeah. But Facebook will honor a DMCA Takedown Notice, which is basically, it’s just the digital millennium copyright act. Which basically says if you come to a website server and demand that they take down this content and do some investigation because they’re infringing on your right, that they will at least take it down while they do the investigation. I usually, by then the infringer doesn’t want any trouble and so they just take it down. Which it’s usually, it’s quite effective actually.
Davina Frederick: Oh, okay. Interesting.
Ayesha Chidolue: Yeah. Yeah.
Davina Frederick: All right, Ayesha, I’m going to shift gears a little bit and I want to talk about your business and your experience as a solo on this Solo to CEO journey and what it has been like for you. And maybe some of the challenges you’ve had, some of the lessons that you’ve learned. And some of the things that you can share with others who might be on the journey, maybe a little bit behind you on the journey, and maybe we can make their path little bit easier by some of the things that you share.
Ayesha Chidolue: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Davina Frederick: So tell us a little bit about your story with being, starting your practice and maybe some of the challenges that you faced, and how you’ve overcome them.
Ayesha Chidolue: Okay. So I think that for me, one of the things that I struggled with in the beginning, especially starting a law practice here in Florida, was being on a solo island in every aspect. I didn’t have a network of friends, a network of business people I knew. I went to school in D.C., I worked in New York City, so I came here really knowing no one. And so I felt like I was on an island myself.
And so one of the things that I did aggressively in my first two years was I went to every networking event that I could go to related to either at my practice area, or where my potential client demographic would be. And I also tried to create relationships and connections with other attorneys in the area. I joined various like groups on Facebook with lawyers and I would send out emails saying I would love to connect with you. Let’s go to lunch. Let’s talk about the business. Even meeting you, I went to … You remember the first conference that I went to where you talked about just, I think with social media in general and email marketing. Even those connections that I met then, I’m still connected and friends with, those people that I met then.
So a lot of that helps me to sort of start to feel confident in my ability and to know that there other people who are doing the same things that I am and dealing with the same struggles that I am, which is being on an island by yourself and not really having a coworker next door to go knock on their door and just brainstorm.
So one of the things though that I got out of all this networking is that I was able to build a connection with a handful of ladies, or less than a handful maybe about three, three of us. And we created a Mastermind group. We all practice the same thing so we all deal with the same struggles. We’re all small business owners on the path to CEO-shipdom. They’re like my coworkers. So even though we’re live two hours, one hour away from each other, we have those Mastermind networking meetings biweekly to talk about what our challenges are and what goals to set for ourselves for the next coming week.
And so my advice to people coming up is that you need to find your tribe. I know tribe is very over used right now, but you need to find a core group of people who have the same path as you and are on the same ambitious wavelength as you.
Because that’s another challenge I would say that I struggled with. Where I consider myself to be a very ambitious person. And I have set high goals for myself. And so it’s not everybody that has that same goal. And so sometimes some people will try to project their own insecurities of what you can accomplish on you. So you want to definitely stay away from those people that make you believe that you cannot reach those goals. You want to be around people who know you can reach those goals, who want to go on that same journey with you. So that’s what I would say.
And then the other big challenge that I have to overcome or figure out a way to handle it is for me as a female being a spouse and a mother, I have very small children. And so obviously when you starting a new business, you have to be out and about either going to networks, finding a way to balance. So when I first started, I was doing a lot of that and one day my daughter was asked, one of my daughter’s who’s 8, was asked in her Girl Scout meeting, well what does your mom, they were asking what their parents were good at. And said what is your mom good at? And she said my mom is good at working.
So I felt bad that she said that. I mean I want her to know that I’m a very powerful and successful career woman, but I don’t want that to be her only impression of me, that all I do is work. So I have to find a balance which basically was that, while I’m going to work 70% of the time in the office, and 30% of the time virtually. So that I could have time to go pick up my children, do their homework with them, finish up with what I’m doing with them, and then continue whatever work that I need to do.
So what I did was, I started scheduling all my meetings early in the day so that I could have those two hour window or three hour window with my kids. Not just bedtime, with them, just so that I could still pursue what it is that I want to, but at the same time be present for my kids. That’s a struggle that maybe not everybody will go through, but for those who have kids, it’s doable. It’s definitely doable, it’s just finding a way to balance it out. And now in the age of technology, a lot of things can be done online or via phone, where you don’t have to necessarily be in one location.
Davina Frederick: Yeah that’s great advice. And I do think there are a lot of people, especially a lot of women, who are still balancing that motherhood, mother of young children and career.
Ayesha Chidolue: Career.
Davina Frederick: Trying to find that balance because they want to be there for their kids, but they still want to have the career and how do they find the balance. And technology, it’s a little bit of a double edged sword, because on the one hand it allows us the freedom and then on the other hand it also can keep us working 24/7.
So you do also have to set limits and say just because I can, doesn’t mean that I will or doesn’t mean that I should.
Ayesha Chidolue: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Davina Frederick: You still have to say yeah, I know that I have the ability to go email at 2:00 in the morning, I also have to sleep as well.
Ayesha Chidolue: Exactly.
Davina Frederick: But I do love that you have found a way to make it work for you to be able to spend time with them. That’s wonderful.
And I know that they’re little fish, they’re little swimmers.
Ayesha Chidolue: They are.
Davina Frederick: So you get to be there for all of their swim meets and I get to see all the pictures of the swim meet.
Ayesha Chidolue: I’m there for everything because I know how important it is when they grow up to be able to say oh our mom made it work. She came to all of our meets and yet she continued to work. And I have only daughters so I want to be able to set the same example that my mother set. And my mom worked her entire life and still works. And I think that’s part of why I’m the way that I am and I want my kids to know that they should be able to balance and have what it is that they desire regardless of whether they’re females or males.
Davina Frederick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That’s terrific, that’s terrific advice. I love it.
So tell us, well, let me ask you, is there anything else that you want to add before we wrap up here?
Ayesha Chidolue: Okay, so I think my last thing is one piece of advice that I would give people starting out in the business for themselves is have a plan and don’t be lazy. And when I say don’t be lazy, I think that a lot of times we see somebody else’s success and say oh this is what she’s doing, I can do that. I’m going to do it. But don’t having the idea of the work that they’re doing behind the scenes to reach that level of success.
And when they start doing the business they realize oh my goodness, I can’t do it, which is why we have such a high rate of businesses shutting down before the fifth year of mark. So my advice is have a plan, have a plan, don’t be lazy, just keep moving. It’s not going to be a straight path, you’re going to have your ends and flows and you’re going to have feast and famine. But you just have to persevere and go through those times.
Davina Frederick: That is wonderful advice right there. That is a gold nugget right there because so many people see, we see things on social media particularly now. And with social media, we see things a lot differently than we used to see things because-
Ayesha Chidolue: Absolutely.
Davina Frederick: … it’s always in our face every day and people have, people project onto social media their own stuff.
Ayesha Chidolue: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Davina Frederick: And they look at it and they go this is what’s happening in this persons’ life. But what you see on social media is only a highlight reel. It’s only part of it.
Ayesha Chidolue: A highlight. Yeah.
Davina Frederick: You do not know what is going on behind the scenes in somebody else’s life. Just because something is on there, in fact, things that you see on social media may have been scheduled weeks ago.
Ayesha Chidolue: Exactly.
Davina Frederick: You know. And there may be photo shoots and graphic designers, you never know what’s going on.
Ayesha Chidolue: You never know. You never know.
Davina Frederick: Recycled content. I mean there’s all kinds of things that’s happening there, right. All kinds of magic could be happening that you don’t even know what’s happening. You can never judge by what you see on social media what’s happening behind the scenes.
Ayesha Chidolue: Absolutely.
Davina Frederick: So don’t … What are the three mental toxins, comparison, critic, and conformity.
Ayesha Chidolue: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Davina Frederick: Comparison, critic, and conformity.
Ayesha Chidolue: I like that.
Davina Frederick: Yeah. All right. So tell us how we can find you on the interwebs.
Ayesha Chidolue: So you can find me by going to www.chidoluelaw.com, it’s www.Chidoluelaw.com. And you can also find me on Facebook or Instagram at Chidoluelaw on both of them. I’m pretty active and I would love to make some new friends.
Davina Frederick: And I will just say this, one of the things that I absolutely love about your social media is, and I follow, is I love your videos. You do a lot of videos and they’re very informative.
Ayesha Chidolue: Well thank you.
Davina Frederick: And you have this amazing, you always wear this beautiful lipstick.
Ayesha Chidolue: Thank you.
Davina Frederick: I have lipstick envy.
And of course you give great information as well. But I love to watch your videos. So anybody wants to see how to do amazing videos, then you need to watch, you definitely need to follow her and watch her videos.
Ayesha Chidolue: Thank you.
Davina Frederick: So thank you Ayesha so much for being here. I really appreciate it and I’ve enjoyed chatting with you this morning.
Ayesha Chidolue: Thank you. I loved this, too.