Felicia Bunbury, founder of The FAB Law Firm, is selective about the clients she takes on. In fact, she rejects potential business all the time, she says, sometimes even “scaring away” unsuitable clients she knows won’t be a good fit for her firm.
It’s just one of the aspects of her non-traditional firm that makes it unique. We talk about this philosophy and others that make this self-described unicorn lawyer different but effective for the clients she does work with from her 100% virtual office in Florida and New York.
And we discuss how she’s been profitable since day one.
We delve into…
- Her business first, law firm second attitude
- Why too many lawyers sell themselves short – and don’t even realize it
- How she uses her branding to attract ideal, high quality clients
- A vital skill most lawyers are missing – it’s something they don’t teach in law school
- And more
Mentioned in This Episode: www.thefablawfirm.com
Davina Frederick: Hello, and welcome to the Solo to CEO podcast, where we provide a mix of powerful, thought-provoking, and practical information to assist you in your transformation from solo to CEO of a high impact, high revenue generating business. I’m your host, Davina Frederick. I’m here today with Felicia Bunbury, attorney and CEO of The FAB Law Firm. The FAB Law Firm provides divorce and mediation services to clients in Florida and in New York. Welcome, Felicia. I’m so glad to have you here today on the Solo to CEO podcast.
Felicia Bunbury: Hey, good afternoon. I’m glad to be here.
Davina Frederick: So, tell us more about your law practice and how you serve your clients. I know I said divorce and mediation services for clients in Florida and New York, but that’s real general. So tell us specifically the nature of your practice and how you serve your clients.
Felicia Bunbury: Absolutely. I’m excited to do that. We are a fathers’ rights law firm. We focus on representing fathers with respect to divorce, custody matters, child support matters, and alimony matters. We’re in the metro Orlando area as well as the five boroughs of NYC. My firm is a boutique firm. We look to service high-end clients. We do so virtually and paperless, and we do so in an efficient way as to save them money, time, and to make it as seamless as possible.
Davina Frederick: So that is a lot to unpack here, because you have several things that you do that are very unique, so I want to talk about all of those. So let’s start out talking about fathers’ rights and why you chose to niche in that area, specifically.
Felicia Bunbury: Absolutely. So a little background about me. Out of law school I was a public defender in Manhattan. And when you’re a public defender you love to represent the underdog. That was the most fulfilling part of that job for me. If you are accused of a crime, if you happen to be a person of color, if you are poor, you are at a disadvantage. I loved doing that because I was providing high legal services to people who couldn’t otherwise afford it, and sometimes getting very, very positive results.
So I think it translates, if that makes sense. So now, with divorces and child support a lot of men feel as if the system is stacked against them, that the courts favor the mothers or women, and I love, love, love educating them. I love protecting their rights. I love asserting their rights, and I love getting them positive results, which we do a lot of the time. So that’s why fathers’ rights, because they’re the underdogs.
Davina Frederick: Right, right. I love that, I love that. Tell me about your decision to practice in two states, a multi-state practice, especially when you’re starting out, is a challenge.
Felicia Bunbury: Yeah, absolutely. I might be a little wordy here, so bear with me because it’s a big kind of thing to sort of make a concise statement. Essentially I found my, I moved to Florida three years ago, October 2017. I had been practicing in New York at that point for around four years. And I did not know anyone professionally here in Florida. I never practiced family law, and I came here for family by the way, my family was here, there was a death, and I decided it was best for me to be closer to my family, so it was an abrupt move. I left a six figure job working for a firm, Grey & Grey in Long Island, making very, very good money, to coming here and sort of starting all over. And I did have to take the bar and do that whole thing. Got a gig working for a big national firm. Hated it, and decided that I wanted to go out on my own. Went out, chose family law, strategically, and we can get into that. And chose a virtual practice, my practice is 100% virtual from day one.
I focused specifically only in Florida at first. So let’s be very clear, New York was just added on, because I wanted to scale. I have the license, I have the office, I have an associate out there that works for me, it made sense. But the concise answer is I focused first in Orlando for a year, then decided to scale up.
Davina Frederick: So explain to me how, because I think you have a lot of attorneys who would love to have a virtual practice. That’s kind of the dream for a lot of lawyers to have a virtual practice, right. And they’re trying to figure out how to do that, especially in something that is litigation intensive, like family law. They’re probably wondering how you do that in a litigation intensive practice. How do you have a virtual, so kind of describe what that looks like.
Felicia Bunbury: So yes and I will describe exactly what that looks like. It sort of fell into my lap. I didn’t know what I didn’t know, so I just did what I wanted, something that fit my life.
My law firm was going to fit my life. It wasn’t going to be the other way around. That’s a promise I made to myself. I’m a very transparent, authentic person and I started to read all the business books and listen to all the podcasts. And speak to the gurus. You and I even had a conversation.
Davina Frederick: Right, I remember.
Felicia Bunbury: We had a good conversation, and you gave me some good nuggets there. And so I became a student, and I got an MBA. I gave myself an MBA is what I like to say because my firm, we haven’t talked about that yet, so I’ve been practical since day one. But that’s another conversation, so I’m going to answer your question, how do I do the virtual firm?
I read Building a Startup, I read a whole bunch of books about startups and I look at my law firm, as a business first, and as a startup. I’m not an attorney that has a business, I’m a business person who is running a law firm. So that’s why it is a very spicy statement, it might be controversial, but I was committed to understanding the business side of law because I’m running a business. So I did everything, I got a virtual office, there’s lots of different offices you can use, so I’m not going to plug a specific person unless they decide to sponsor you.
But I use a virtual office, and I work from home, and with the office all my mail goes there, and this particular company has offices throughout Central Florida, and throughout New York, it’s the same company. I’ve got a plan with them, it’s a couple hundred dollars a month, to have access to all of their offices, and I have one that’s my main office, and I pay extra money for it. I’m a numbers girl, because at the end of the day, let’s keep it real, running a business is about money. So I want to give people the exact numbers so let’s say I spend about 400 dollars a month between my main office downtown Orlando, having access to their conference room, having the ability to rent out any of their conference rooms, anytime, and getting my mail there, and also I have another plan with them where I can use any of their other offices, if I book in advance, for a flat fee.
So it’s very simple, I go to court, I speak with clients, I use Vonage, I will say that, so that my staff, and I use 1099s to start out. Everyone can use the same phone system, as long as they have their username and password. I use a CRM where everyone can talk to everyone at the same time, see the same things at the same time. I do weekly meetings, now its moved from me being a fellow to a small firm. I just hired, three weeks ago, an associate, and I have a full time legal assistant as of February, but for the first year and four months, I was a one woman show. I want to be transparent about that as well.
But I do do everything virtually. No I do not tell my clients. Unless they specifically ask, which no one does. I know that’s a question I get a lot of times. If they want to meet with me I block off Tuesdays and Thursdays as days I meet clients, for in-person meetings, where I do case evaluations- paid consultations. I block off all my time. If I have to do a deposition, I go to a deposition, if I have to go to a court date, I go to the court date. If I have to meet with the client, I meet with them in my office, it’s an opulent building downtown, it looks fancy, but I’m not paying that $2000 rent. So I hope that kind of answers your question.
Davina Frederick: Yeah, I love that you broke that down for people, so we can get a good visual of it, and I love that you started out, you and I had had a conversation about that. This was one of those things that, and I was talking to somebody else about this earlier, I think yesterday, on a podcast, because this was one of the challenges when I started my law practice, 12 years ago, and throughout the years, is I would have people say to me, over and over again, well your clients aren’t going to like that, if you do it that way, your clients aren’t going to like that or people aren’t going to like that, and usually, what I figured out was, the people that were saying that to me were people that had an agenda that they were trying to get me to do something, the way they wanted me to do it.
Felicia Bunbury: Hallelujah on that one, hallelujah on that one, yes.
Davina Frederick: And I’ve realized that I could create a business the way that I wanted a business, and I could also experiment, right? We can experiment with things and if they don’t work out the way that we envision, we can change it up and try something else, because it is our business. And I’m sure you’ve done that with your business, right? There’s probably things that you’ve tried and you go, “Well that didn’t work quite the way that I envisioned, so I’ll try something else.” That’s the beauty of you owning your own business, right?
Felicia Bunbury: Absolutely, to piggyback off of things you just said, number one, I want to tell anyone who is within the sound of my voice, do it afraid. You are going to feel afraid. The world class people out there feel afraid, and you’re going to feel afraid. Do it anyway. That’s one thing, and two, this is real high level mindset stuff, but all you need are X amount of your ideal clients, so I broke down, I had a revenue goal in mind which I needed the first year, and I had a lifestyle goal which I met as far as taking vacations, and I said, “How many clients at my retainer do I need in Central Florida to do business with me to come to that top line number.” And I believe it was something like 150- I don’t have it front of me- clients.
So I’m saying that to say: you want to deter people that are not your ideal clients, who want the brick and mortar, if that’s what they want. And they’re going to pay more for that brick and mortar. I decided if you look at my website, I wanted my brand to be kind of young, kind of funky, even the colors I used. I wanted it to appeal to a type of client that I wanted to work with. Someone who could use technology, technology friendly, somebody who wanted somebody who would shake it up a little bit and not the same old, good old boy attorney, which is a great choice for those who want that person. There is enough for everybody, so I’m not knocking that. I just need my tribe, and your tribe will get it, when I tell people we are virtual, it saves you money, blah blah, they’re like, “Yeah, yeah”, they love it. You just kind of make that part of your little pitch, when you are selling yourself to a potential client that-
Davina Frederick: You’re not going to be for everyone, and I’m not going to be for everyone, and that’s okay. Right?
Felicia Bunbury: That’s okay, yeah.
Davina Frederick: And people who may want to work with you may not want to work with somebody else and people who may not want to work with somebody else may not want to work with you, and people get in a mindset of there is only one pie and when you have a piece of the pie it is going to take away from my piece of the pie, and we never think, “Well we can just make more pie.” We’re going to make different kinds of pie.
Felicia Bunbury: There’s enough people for everybody, and what I’ve learned is I don’t want to work for everybody. When you are doing really good marketing, it is going to intensely deter people who are not your ideal person. For example, a broke person might not be your ideal person, or somebody who is not- I like people who know how to scan an email, because we are virtual. People who cannot, in my intake process, follow my electronic intake form, or my team’s instructions to fill that out, I reject them. Hello they’re not for me. But they may be for you, I’ll send them up the street to you.
Davina Frederick: Right, right
Felicia Bunbury: And that’s okay.
Davina Frederick: Right. There are different areas of practice that may be more- someone was discussing that in one of the social media groups, there are certain areas of practice that you are going to have people who are less inclined – where you might have an elderly population, that is not comfortable with technology, and so that kind of practice may not work as well.
Felicia Bunbury: Can I push back against that? For a period of time in my practice, I rented a coworking space, and I had a 1099 there seven days of the week. Specifically. For my firm. And we had a designated room, I paid a little bit more so instead of the 400 I quoted you guys earlier, let’s call it 500 for everything a month, with this service I used. She was there two or three times a week in person, let’s call it 15 hours a week let’s say, five hours each day, so if someone were to come in and make an appointment, there would be a physical representation to notarize your document, to explain a financial affidavit, et cetera, et cetera. I say your firm has to work for you, if you’re a mother and you have a young child, and you want to be at home or whatever, I think there is always a way to make it work, it’s just not traditional.
A lot of people are going to make a face when you say it, but it’s doable because I know people who are elder law attorneys who do it, and criminal attorneys who have a higher traffic rate at their firm like pop ups, who do it, so I think it’s doable, you just might have to finagle it a little.
Davina Frederick: I ran an estate planning practice that was virtual and some of my best clients were in their eighties, and some of them I never met in person, so it can be done. So moving on I want to talk about, you have a new venture going on, and I know you want to talk about that, and I want to talk about that. I want to talk about how you came to develop the expertise, so I want to talk about your timeshare days.
Felicia Bunbury: I’m an open book, whatever you want to talk about, I’m down.
Davina Frederick: I always find it interesting to talk about the experiences that people have that shape them as lawyers, that are outside their legal experience. I know that you worked for a while in timeshare sales-
Felicia Bunbury: Absolutely.
Davina Frederick: I find that really fascinating, so tell us about that a little bit.
Felicia Bunbury: Absolutely. Okay, so back in I think October 2017, I moved here, my grandpa passed away, grandpa’s girl totally, most of my family was here, I moved here. I was licensed in New York as of 2012 or 2011, can’t remember off the top of my head. Now I’m coming to a new state, and I have to take the bar again, and you know, its expensive. So I had to work. At the time I had a boyfriend who was in sales, and I was working bartending- I went back to what I used to do in college, and he was like, I don’t know if it was a compliment or not. “Felicia, you’re like the most persuasive person I’ve ever met, I think you should do sales, I think you’d be great.” Cut to the quick, he was working in timeshare, at- I won’t say the company, he was working for one of the big companies here in Central Florida, and they had an open house, he was like, “Come do it”. I never did sales, I didn’t even know what a timeshare was.
Davina Frederick: Oh wow.
Felicia Bunbury: Anyhow, I went to their sales training, which is I think a six week program, or two week program, and I graduated at the top of that – they told me you have the ‘sales chops’, I became obsessive, you know, type A- always all the Zig Ziglar books, all the little red book of sales selling, all of that I read, I listened to all the podcasts on sales, I memorized my sales scripts so that if you woke me up at three o’clock in the morning, I could do it verbatim.
I became obsessed with it. When I went on the sales floor, I worked there for about three months, they have you like on a list, I was always either number one or two. I was on track to do something called President’s Club- if you are in the top one percent, of the company in sales. Timeshares are basically where you are forced into a ninety minute presentation, you are promised something, and at the end of it, you can elect to buy. I was getting people to spend 30,000, 40,000 dollars after the 90-minute presentation, almost every single day I would sell. A timeshare is nothing anyone needs. Face to face it is a very hard sell. Most people are there for the free breakfast, or whatever they are being promised.
So I did become very good at sales. I would tell everyone that’s my secret, because I was able to start my firm. I did not have any money, I did not have credit cards. I run my firm debt free. I’ve never borrowed a dime. Not from a family member, so I had basically maybe $1000. I had gotten a bonus from the company I was leaving from, and it was $1000. $500 went to the website, it’s still the website I have now. I started selling. I did a quickie marketing plan, this is what people don’t tell you, and I don’t know if they do that I did use some of the abos, the lead generation things, because I was in a desperate state, you need a short game and you need a long game. The SCO and the referrals and all that, that’s the long game. I needed to eat that month and pay rent that month. I didn’t have the luxury or a husband as a safety net, or, I do have family, I can always stay with family, and my family would give me money, but I was a grown thirty year old woman.
So, that was like my mentality. I used those programs and everyone said that they wouldn’t work. I think they do. I think all marketing works a little. Or a lot depending on your skillset. I took those, I would say low quality leads, and convert them into sales. I was profitable from day one, because I had a CPA, and so elected for me to be an S corp, let’s say 2018. If you looked at my first quarter numbers, you’d be like this is crazy. You’re profitable from day one he was explaining to me, I didn’t even know what that meant. When people were crawling in, I was making them into a client. That’s what I was doing. I figured everything else out as I went. Does that make sense? That’s the truth.
In the first year, and I like to talk about numbers because woman don’t like talking about numbers, I’m not going to get so specific but I will say I was able to exceed my goal, which was to do a quarter million in the first year, I did more than a quarter million, top line. I took in just over six figures as an income. For my first year, everyone told me that’s crazy. I think that a lot of lawyers don’t know how to sell. Or people in general. I think that’s the issue, because you can have all of the other things in place, the software, the this the that, if you don’t have a sales process, a sales script, if you’re not converting the people you are getting in, then you are not going to have any money in the bank account.
Davina Frederick: Yeah, so I want to talk about this because you and I have talked about this before, and I think that it’s one of the things that holds so many, particularly woman attorneys back when they are first starting out in a practice, because it’s one of the things they do such a disservice to us when we are going through law school, were one of the three learned professions, they drill it into our heads when were in law school, you are one of three learned professions, and somehow they make it out a though its dirty to talk about this being a business, and talk about it being a money generating endeavor. It is necessary for it to be a business that generates money and feeds our families, right? For us to do that, sales is fundamental.
When I learned how to have a sales conversation, it changed everything in my business. It is a skill that is by far one of the most necessary skills you have when you own and run a business. You have to learn how to have a sales conversation and how to talk to people comfortably about money, and how to ask for money for your services, and then to shut your mouth and let people pay you.
Felicia Bunbury: Can you put that on a T-shirt or a billboard. Absolutely, and its uncomfortable. Now it shouldn’t externally be uncomfortable or awkward the conversation, but internally it is uncomfortable, and you have to lean in because all of your issues with money and self-esteem come up. I speak to a whole bunch of people, friends, we have a lunch with other attorneys who are like, “I’m not making any money,” that we get into the real conversation, they are doing payment plans, they are dropping their prices, and I’m like here’s the deal, at least I took six figures out in student loans, I have to have a high end product, just like a doctor, just like a hedge fund manager, because you went to school seven years, I have experience outside of opening my firm.
I think that you don’t blink. You very flat footed and straight faced, have to ask for the money that you command based on your expertise. It is as simple as that and it is uncomfortable. But at the end of the day, you have bills to pay, moneys not dirty, and you are providing, hopefully, a high quality-
Davina Frederick: Yeah, I mean I think we’re going to go into the conversation making the assumption with anyone that the competency is going to be the baseline. If you have a bar license, the state has deemed you competent to practice law. Now what you are not with experience, if you are just starting out and then the more you do it the more experienced you become, and we assume that you are going to do what is necessary to become experienced and high quality and stay competent. But all that being said, learning how to talk about money and not buying into other people’s money stories, and working on your own money stuff and all that stuff is critical in being able to run a business and being able to have that sales conversation.
Even today I was reading something in the group on Facebook, about somebody talking about- and so much anger is put back on clients, who are complaining to the lawyers about, “Oh you’re charging too much money for this,” and the lawyers are angry and complaining, and seem to be resentful about people complaining about them charging too much, but the issue is not with the clients, because people in general always complain about things costing too much money. They do it in every profession, if you go in copywriters groups, you’re going to see the same stories, if you go in marketers groups, and graphic designers groups, you’re going to see the same. Talk to any graphic designer and they are going to talk to you about clients who keep offering them opportunities to do stuff for the exposure. Every profession out there is going to talk to you about clients who want stuff done for free. We all think we are unique in that, coaches, consultants, attorneys, engineers, across the board are going to tell you, clients always want stuff for free. The issue is-
Felicia Bunbury: Yeah but that’s not your problem right?
Davina Frederick: Exactly the issue is-
Felicia Bunbury: That is not your problem, yeah.
Davina Frederick: The issue is that you have to just find a way- in the four agreements, agreement number two: don’t take it personally. You have to find a way to not take it personally, it is not about you.
Felicia Bunbury: I love that book, I give it to everyone, yeah. Well I think, If I could kind of piggyback off of what you’re saying, when I see those conversations in some of those groups, it is also our job to manage the expectation, that’s also the sales project, that’s why I think the other thing goes around that you were beginning to mention, you do have to manage the expectation, maybe change the billing I just did. Do whatever feels most comfortable for you but you have to at the beginning of a conversation about someone coming to retain your services, give them an idea of how much this can cost them, worst case scenario, and I always do that. Worst case scenario, if this divorce drags out across a year and a half, two years, it is going to cost you X amount, and I break it down for them.
Some people might be scared to do that like you’re going to scare them off, I’m not interested in someone who feels like I have taken advantage of that and misrepresented anything. I want to give you the truth that this may cost you, you know a mid-asset divorce, with whatever issues, this can cost up to 20 to 25,000 dollars before trial, in the worst case scenario, if its very litigious. I want to break it down for them, and this way, we can have an authentic conversation and that expectation is set. If you’re just taking 3,000 dollars and you’re saying well we’re probably going to settle this in the next four months, and in a year and a half the case is still going on, they’re going to be pissed off. Honestly as a professional, that’s a failure on your behalf.
Davina Frederick: Right, right. I just had a situation where I personally received a bill from an attorney that I had an expectation that the retainer was paid- because the way that I used to do it was when the retainer would get low I would then let my clients know that the retainer is getting low, I’m going to need this replenished, and then I’d bill against it. So I had an expectation that this attorney was going to let me know when this gets low, you’ll need to replenish it- id bill against it- but instead what I got was a bill for thousands that she’d already billed. And-
Felicia Bunbury: Failure in communication didn’t feel good did it?
Davina Frederick: So it was poor communication, on her part about billing, and so then that puts me in a position where I’m kind of like, I got a bad taste in my mouth about that.
Felicia Bunbury: And you’re not trusting her. I do a weekly update to clients every Friday about their case. And when I send out bills, which is once a month, I let you know, “Oh you have X amount on your retainer, these are the next steps that are happening on your case, the next bill is going to go out July 10th. You’re going to have to replenish your retainer at that time.” And it gives people the opportunity to come up with thousands of dollars. The average American does not have thousands of dollars laying around. You have to set your client up for success, and also you have to take some responsibility for that.
Davina Frederick: Yeah, that whole thinking in terms of the golden rule. How would you like to be treated. If it were you, and you required legal services, what would work for you?
Felicia Bunbury: Knowing how much i have to pay throughout the year would work.
Davina Frederick: If you think to yourself, If I had to have legal services, how would I want to be treated or how would I want this to be communicated to me. I think communication is really what we are talking about.
Felicia Bunbury: Absolutely. Any services, it is statistically shown that, I think it said that between the ages of 25 and 35, the average American if there was an emergency where they have to get their hands on 600 dollars, they would not have it in savings. So if that’s what the culture is in the United States, you have to set your client up to know how much the bill is going to be, exactly when the next payment is going to be, so they can get their hands on that money. I think that’s a whole other conversation but I hope this helps somebody.
Davina Frederick: So, we’re just about out of time, but before we wrap up, I want to ask you, I love for people to share their best gold nuggets for people who are on the solo to CEO journey that may be behind you, some of the lessons you’ve learned as you’ve been growing your practice. I know you have bigger and better things ahead of you but so far, what are some of the things that you’ve learned that you can share with us that we can learn from your wisdom?
Felicia Bunbury: Oh my, there’s so many. The main thing is to get a quick marketing engine in your business. To play the short game, whether that’s google AdWords, whether that’s a lead generation service where you pay them X amount of dollars. All of them can work, if you have a great sales process. I’m talking to the person who is desperate, they are solo not by choice necessarily, and they need to pay their bills. Mentorship, and mentorship doesn’t necessarily mean reaching out to a specific person, you can. Lawyers are generally busy, but you can have a mentor in the form of a book. Podcasts such as the one I’m on with Davina. She’s a wealth of knowledge. I listen to lots of legal podcasts, which were game changers and every time they recommended a book or a service or whatever, I actually did it. Then I ate the fish and threw away the bone. Kept what worked, threw out what didn’t.
You need community. I am a proponent of coaching but if you can’t necessarily afford coaching, there are a lot of really good Facebook groups, closed Facebook groups, podcasts, I know Davina has a program, and I think you have an option where someone can have an initial conversation with you and perhaps you can point them in the right direction. You need to find community and there is so many out there that are really good, you have to find something that works for you.
That is what works for me, and being very specific about what your goals are. How much money do you need to pay your bills, your loans and eat. How many clients do you need to get in the door, how many do you need to convert. You have to have a specific plan written down, that you are implementing and working at every single day. That is my tidbit, I am starting a Facebook community, that’s the Unicorn Entrepreneur. It’s specifically just for sales, and it focuses on the legal services or any other services to help people with their sales process. I’m going to be doing some free webinars and things like that. People can find me at the Unicorn Entrepreneur Facebook group for now, where everything is free. I just want to give back. I think that’s a good resource if you’re like, “I don’t have a sales process, please help me.” There will be a lot of free stuff on, my Facebook group.
If you are looking for me specifically and I know that you did not ask me but if you are looking for me specifically I do have the FAB law firm. You can find me on the Facebook group, you can email me at [email protected], Frank Apple Bob, FAB. And if I can, I will point you in the direction, help you. I think that’s it, you need to find community, you need to find a mentor. You need to read. You have a business, you need to figure out how to run a business. Which you do not learn in law school.
Davina Frederick: That is really the key. We really would love to say, “Well I’ve got my education, I’ve been to law school and I’ve got the education,” but if you want to own your own business, your education is not complete. You can dig in and learn it all by experience, but the fact of the matter is that you’ll probably get there a lot faster and be a lot more successful if you also embrace being a lifelong learner, and reading and asking the questions, and doing the research and listening to podcasts. There’s a wealth of information out there, but you have to really embrace learning to be a business. I cannot agree with you more, you have to embrace learning to be a business owner, and know that there are all these business skills out there from operations to marketing to sales.
Felicia Bunbury: It is really overwhelming, and that’s how come it makes sense to find a coach if you need to, or a community. Whatever works for you because there’s so much information if you google, you can paralyze yourself with overload of information, and not knowing which direction to go, so sometimes you can find someone who has a podcast or a book, or even a program, I know Davina you have a program, If you like them, you may want to figure out the best of the best of everything yourself. I invested in my mind which then in turn makes me money. Because you have to change your thinking, you have to get the knowledge. So that would be my strong suggestion, and that’s what I do I read two non-fiction business books a month.
Davina Frederick: Oh wow. Great advice, great advice. Thanks so much, I really appreciate it, and you answered my last question, which was you gave us the information on where we could find out more about you, so that terrific. Felicia I’m so happy you were here today, and I know this was a short conversation but I’m really glad that I think we packed a lot in, and anybody listening to this podcast is going to get just a wealth of information that’s going to be really useful to them. So I really, really thank you for being here and sharing with us.
Felicia Bunbury: Thanks for having me. Thank you for the good energy, thank you so much.