In today’s episode, we sit down with Kristen Robinson, partner at Mellin Robinson for over 18 years. Mellin Robinson is a family law firm serving clients in Troy, Michigan, and the surrounding area. They’re particularly well known for their creative solutions to clients’ problems and for their collaborative approach.
Aside from working in her firm, Kristen also speaks frequently within her community and through online channels. “I try to take advantage of every opportunity that comes my way to get out in front of people,” says Kristen who is passionate about serving more family law clients.
We’ll chat with Kristen about how being involved with your community can be the best kind of marketing, the challenges with growing a firm, as well as…
- The importance of procedures and how to implement them
- The hiring process (and making sure you’ve found the best candidate)
- Kristen’s plans for growing the firm
- Retirement plans for attorneys
- How to get speaking engagements
- And more
Mentioned in this episode:
- Connect with Kristen on LinkedIn
Davina Frederick: Hello and welcome to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. Our mission is to provide thought-provoking, powerful and practical information to help you in creating your own sustainable wealth-generating law firm without overwork or overwhelm so you can live your best life. I’m your host, Davina Frederick and I’m here today with Kristen Robinson of Mellin Robinson.
Mellin Robinson is a family law firm serving clients in Troy, Michigan and the surrounding area. They are particularly known for their creative solutions to their client’s problems and for their collaborative approach. Welcome, Kristen. I’m so pleased to have you here today on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast.
Kristen Robinson: Thanks, Davina. I’m very pleased to be able to be a part of this.
Davina: Oh, good, good. So I’m excited to get to know more about you. Can you start out by just kind of telling us how your journey to becoming a lawyer and then ultimately, to partnering in your law practice?
Kristen: Sure. I always wanted to be a lawyer. Even when I was a small child, my parents teased me about it. And I, you know, went to law school following my college undergrad education. And I got into family law kind of as a fluke. I was looking for a full time clerking position while I was in law school. And I happened to get a job with a very prominent family law attorney in Detroit. And I clerked for her for three years.
And when I was finished with law school and I graduated, I received an offer to work at a small boutique family law firm because I had worked for this woman and learned, you know, I trained under her as a clerk. And I worked at that firm for a short period of time and moved on to another a little bit bigger firm that where I also did family law. That’s where I met my current business partner. She and I were doing family law at a larger firm. We had the opportunity, that firm, where I met my partner, was a prepaid legal services firm and they represented members of the carpenters union in Michigan.
Well, they decided to stop family laws a part of their plan, as their prepaid plan. So my partner and I, now partner then coworker, approached them and asked if they would consider referring all of those carpenters to us if we went out on our own and we would do those divorces or family law matters at a reduced rate. So that kind of jump-started our client base. Although we were, you know, not charging very much, we had a lot of clients right off the bat. So fortunate that we had that opportunity.
Davina: So how long have you had your firm now?
Kristen: 18 years. I’ve been with my current partner 18 years now.
Davina: Wow. Wow, that’s some good longevity. Before we go further with that, I want to jump back to when you said that you always wanted to be an attorney and you knew as a child. That, was there a person who influenced you? Because, you know, as a child, what are your experience with attorneys? You know, you see them on TV and you think, you read To Kill a Mockingbird or something like that, right? So what made you decide you wanted to be an attorney at such a young age?
Born To Practice Law
Kristen: My parents had a good friend who was a judge, and before he was a judge She was an attorney. And he had great stories about his practice and the people that came before him and, you know, how he helped people. And I think that just always appealed to me. And so I just started, you know, I wrote I wrote a book when I was in third grade or something called The Youngest Lawyer. A story I should say. Not a book.
Davina: I love it. I wish that I had had such clarity at such a young age. I’m still trying to figure out who I want to be in life, right? So it’s wonderful you had that kind of clarity.
Kristen: Yeah, well, you know, it’s funny because never thought I would be a family law attorney. I mean, that wasn’t on my radar. I didn’t even know what that was, you know? And so even in college and law school, I just assumed I would do something corporate or, you know, something related to business. I had a double major in business and political science in undergrad.
And so I just thought, Oh, that’s a perfect, I’ll go to law school and I can, you know, represent businesses. And really, the job I took, and I took the job because it was a good-paying job and it fit with my schedule. You know, and as it turns out, I think I just turned out I had a personality well-suited for family law. I think it, you know, it’s kind of a, sometimes can be a tough area of practice. Very emotional clients need a lot of attention. And, you know, not every attorney is well-suited for that.
Davina: What do you think it is about your personality that makes you like, what characteristics do you think makes you a good family law attorney?
Kristen: I think that I’m a particularly good listener, and I think in family law cases, people need to tell their story. And, yes, we know as attorneys, how, oftentimes how things are likely to end up based on a given set of circumstances. And I think there are a lot of attorneys that just want to cut to the chase and tell the client this is how it’s going to go. But I think there’s part of that whole divorce process, the stage that the client comes to you, it’s different.
You know, you have people who had no idea their spouse was contemplating divorce and they need to tell their story and they need to grieve. And I recognize that. And, you know, it’s, so I think that’s part of it. I think just generally taking the position that we’re trying to help people get through a difficult time. You know, it’s get these people through this process without, with as little scar tissue as possible.
Davina: It seems like you’re a very compassionate person.
Kristen: Yeah, I think you’re probably right about that. And that probably helps, too.
Davina: Yeah. So tell me about your partnership. You guys have been partners now. You used to work together and you’ve been partners for 18 years. What do you think has been the key to your successful partnership?
Kristen: My partner, her name is Erica, we’ve talked about this a lot. When we actually left that larger law firm, there were three of us and we all work together and we all started a firm together. And the three of us lasted for two years. And that third partner, at the time, was not a good fit. And my partner and I, my current partner, we believe that because we had a really terrible experience in the beginning, that we appreciate one another.
We went through kind of this, you know, it’s almost a divorce in the business, you know, breaking up that the three-person partnership to pare down to two. And we saw the other side, you know, how it could be. And I really believe that, you know, we both recognize that we bring different skill sets to the table and we have different personalities. But we respect one another and it’s just
Davina: Are there actions that you take, the two of you take kind of on a regular consistent basis to make sure that you’re still in tune with each other or tapped in or, you know, or in running the firm? Or do you got, you know, do you guys divvy up certain things? Do you meet? Do you go to lunch, you know, once a month? What kinds of things do you do?
Maintaining a Healthy and Proactive Partnership
Kristen: Yes, we actually try to go to lunch once, about once a week. And, you know, out of the office, away from, we have a small staff. But we sometimes need to talk about things and we find that trying to do that weekly is better than waiting.
Davina: Right. Because things don’t get to be as big of an issue.
Kristen: That’s correct. That’s correct. So I think that’s part of it. And, and we’ve become friends, you know, over the years. We’re, you know, we’re good friends. And so I think that’s also a good, that’s a piece of the puzzle, you know?
Davina: Yeah, that’s, yeah, that’s a real, that’s really the key right? For that long, be together that long, it’d be really hard if you didn’t like each other. What do you, so how do you guys kind of divvy up the functions in running the firm and all of that? Do you divvy it up or do you do everything together?
Kristen: No. We divvy it up. We, she is more interested in the money side of it. And then she’s, we have an accountant and a bookkeeper, but she deals with them. So she knows about all of that. And she, you know, handles that. She has no interest in marketing or the marketing and advertising side of it, you know? So I handled that. And that was kind of a natural thing. It just kind of happened. It’s not something we planned on in the beginning, but we just both, I’m more of a creative type and she’s more of a numbers person. So
Davina: Right, right. So that works out well.
Kristen: Yes, yes.
Davina: Yeah. So lucky you because you hooked up with somebody who loves the numbers. A lot of attorneys I speak with just hate dealing with and talking about the numbers. It’s really nice when your partner really enjoys that.
Kristen: It is. I appreciate it too because I really don’t. I don’t care for it at all.
Davina: Yeah, you just want to know, are we making money?
Davina: So let’s talk about the marketing and rainmaking and stuff like that. I noticed that you are a pretty frequent speaker. You’ve done a lot of speaking. Is that kind of one of your main avenues for marketing? Or What kinds of things do you do?
Kristen: I, yes, I do. I try to take advantage of, you know, every opportunity that comes my way to get out in front of people. So, and whether that’s through the legal community, or, you know, my community in general, I think it’s important to be involved in your community when you can, I think speaking is great because you get your, you get to tell your, express your level of expertise.
And people learn, you know, that you know what you’re doing. And I think that increases referrals. But also just getting out in the regular community, you know, volunteering and, you know, networking with other business people, taking classes. You know, I, am a big proponent of doing like community ed type things and taking art classes. And I think, I feel like the most successful people know a lot of people. The more connections you have, the more people know about what you do and you’re more likely to get referrals.
Which in our business, that’s our primary, how we get our clients is primarily through referrals. Although we do, you know, of course, we have to have the web presence and the SEO and all that. But in the end, I think when you, somebody knows you personally, they’re more likely to send you a client and that client is more likely to hire you because you were referred, they were referred to you by somebody who they know and trust.
Davina: So you have done something that’s kind of interesting. It’s something I’ve advised a lot of my clients to do. I think a lot of people get in their mind that if networking means that they have to join some business, or leads group or something and go to that every week, and that’s how they have to network, right? But one of the things you mentioned was, in addition to speaking, is being involved in the community. And you, and then you mentioned even like taking an art class. You know, you don’t have to stay in attorney mode and be this, you know, in your suit out at a networking event to meet people who can help grow your business, right?
Kristen: Right. Right. And I think, I find that’s even better. I mean, people are, I mean, A, you get to meet people at which I love to do, you know, all walks of life. But you’re, it’s not that forced elevator pitch. Yeah, you know, and, you know, even like getting to know your neighbors, you know something as simple as that. You know, many, many years ago, I realized that I had been telling people that I practice family law. And without an explanation, people, regular people, not attorneys didn’t know what that meant. I was getting people calling me asking me if I could help their kid who was in trouble at school, you know?
Davina: Because it’s their family and you do family law.
Kristen: Right. Exactly, exactly. So I started telling people I was a divorce attorney. And my husband, we were at a party somewhere and he’s like, do you have to tell people you’re a divorce attorney? It sounds so harsh.
Davina: I love that.
Kristen: I said I have to, I have, like, they have to know, you know, all these f these neighbors didn’t know exactly what I did. And so, but they know what a divorce attorney is. And so when they have a co-worker or a family member or somebody who needs a divorce attorney, now they’ll know to call me, you know? So that was a little like twist and, you know, how
Davina: I think that’s huge. That clarity, you know, we often take for granted as attorneys that other people understand all the things that we understand, you know, that, and we don’t, it’s like we don’t give ourselves enough credit for the education and the years of experience and all this whole different language that we speak. And so when you’re talking with the general public, you have to, you really have to take the attorney speak out of it. And people don’t think that family law is attorney speak. But it really is because it’s so unclear.
You could be in estate planning. You know, a lot of people think of family law as, Oh, here’s somebody who can write my will, you know? And a lot of Family Law Attorneys don’t do that. So I love the clarity of that and helping people really communicate. So it sounds like you’re really a good communicator with your, with people that you meet and your prospective clients and probably your clients.
Kristen: I try my best. I mean, I think that’s an important aspect, getting people to understand, you know, what I do, and then I can help somebody they may know.
Davina: Right, right. So tell me some of the, switching gears a little bit, let’s look at your, growing your team and having your staff and developing your firm over the years. What do you think some of the biggest challenges have been in growing your firm for when you started to where you are now, 18 years later? What do you think some of the biggest shifts have been for you?
Finding the Right People to Fit a Firm’s Culture
Kristen: I think the biggest challenge is finding the right people who fit in your idea of what you want your firm to be. I think that it’s hard, having a couple of interviews with whether it’s a legal assistant or an associate attorney to know when people will be a good fit. And I think that was the biggest challenge for us is finally getting to the point where it’s not just about somebody’s education or even experience necessarily, but more about personalities.
Because if your people in your office can’t get along, it’s so distracting and it really brings down morale, and then it just has this domino effect. And we found that getting somebody who has a good personality that fits with the rest of the group, it’s better to train that person than to hire somebody who knows what you’re doing but who can’t get along with anyone.
Davina: Right, right. So what kind of processes or procedures did you sort of put in place to help you improve your hiring process to get those kinds of people on your team?
Kristen: Really just kind of changing the interview process. And following up on references. I mean, we’re kind of digging deep and talking to the references that potential employees brought to the table. You know, your, before I think I call the last employer, you know, but I think, you know, kind of going down their whole list is helpful to hear what people have to say, you know? And even if it’s not a non, I think lots of times people discount nonemployer references but I think those are the, those people tell you about more about the person, you know?
Davina: Oh, that’s interesting.
Kristen: Yeah. So, and then just, you know, kind of having more interviews and more casual conversation type interviews, just to kind of get to know somebody, rather than just that, in the beginning, we just had this kind of template, you know? And that didn’t cut it. So
Davina: Yeah, that’s interesting. That’s interesting. So do you do, when you’re hiring, do you do more than one interview? And do you, how do you do that? Do you do phone interviews or video interviews are all in-person interviews, group interviews, what kinds of things?
Kristen: We start with a phone interview. And then we schedule an interview with one, myself or my partner, and then based on how that goes, then we schedule an interview with both of us, because the reality of the situation is they’re working for both of us. And we, my partner and I have a dynamic and this person has to kind of fit into that dynamic. So we learned that that’s kind of a good way to see how, you know, in a potential employee would interact with the two of us. And that seems to be a good method for us.
Davina: Right, right. So what other kinds of challenges have you had in growing your firm through the years? What do you think has been kind of the most aha moment for you where you’re like, oh, wow, I never considered this or never thought of that. or, you know?
Kristen: So, several years ago, my partner and I both were trained. In Michigan, you have to get a 40-hour training to be a certified mediator in domestic relations. And we both did that and it took us a little while to figure out how we were going to transition that into increasing our business or growing our business. And it’s a totally different marketing strategy because you’re no longer marketing to the general public. You’re marketing to other family law attorneys.
And once we kind of discovered that, not that we didn’t know that but embrace it, I guess, it’s kind of an untapped market. I mean, we spend so much time whether it’s in court or at local BAR functions, even continuing education where we are, you know, we have this whole community of family law attorneys who we know very well, who we have worked with over the last, you know, 20 years for me, 22 years for my business partner, and who we get along with and we in enjoy their company and they respect us and we respect them.
We needed to learn to ask them to choose us as mediators in their divorce cases. And once we did that, people were happy to choose us. You know, they didn’t know that that’s what we were doing and that’s where we were going. And since we’ve flipped that switch, that’s really been a great addition to our firm, adding that mediation piece of it. So
Davina: Did you find you find it a challenge, like I know, here, it’s the same thing in Florida, where we have to take that 40 hours, you know, become certified mediators. And one of the challenges that a lot of attorneys I’ve spoken with who wanted to transition and do more mediation is that people are already working with their favorite mediary. You know, like, everybody still has their favorites that they’d like to try to get if they possibly can to handle mediation stuff. So how would, how did you break into that? What did you say to people to get them to try you instead of kind of go into their old standbys?
Gently Nudging Your Way to Becoming a Mediation Favorite
Kristen: So a couple of years ago, we had, fortuitously for us, we had some, our pool of mediators trapped because we had several mediators retire. And then that pushed everybody to the mediators that were last, that were kind of the favorites. And you can’t get into those people. You can’t, you know, it takes months and months to get a date for mediation.
So we used that to our advantage and said, Hey, listen, you think you’re settling your case and your trial date’s coming up and you were ordered to go to mediation and you didn’t go because you thought you were settled? Give us a call. We can get you in. We can get you in next week. We can get you in, you know, quickly. And that was the ticket.
Davina: Now that’s good advice.
Kristen: Yeah. So and then once, it’s like a, you know, once somebody used us or, you know, to lawyers used us and we settled their case, they picked us again, you know? So
Davina: And you became a favorite.
Kristen: Yes. No, really, I mean, it’s, and we’re still there are some family law attorneys, and this is probably, you know, not unusual, who just moved their whole practice, that’s all they do. They’re just doing, you know, mediation. That’s not, we’re not going to do that. So we do, we try to do each of us, you know, one or two a week so that we can still maintain our litigation practice. But one of the things It was helpful in, when finally a few years ago, you know, all of this picked up and we did start getting more mediations, the cases are still coming in.
I mean, we’re, you know, we’ve been in business a long time. So we still, which, you know, that gives, that’s an easier, you know, when you’re hiring an associate, you have work to give them. You know, so your associate now has plenty of billable hours because they’re picking up the slack and the litigation cases, but we don’t have time for now because we’re spending, you know, a day or two a week strictly dedicated to mediation. So that was a nice, how that worked out and you know, for the business.
Davina: Right. So do you, what do you think the difference was for you when you hired your first attorney versus hiring staff? Was that a challenge?
Kristen: Yes. We, our first attempt didn’t pan out. That was not, it wasn’t a good fit. And so we were a little gun shy after that. But when we were getting to the point where we really needed somebody, we needed another lawyer, we had to bite the bullet and say, Okay, we got to do this, you know? Because why turn business away? I mean, we’re not going to. As a, you know, we’re a small firm, whether you’re a solo or small firm, you don’t turn business away, you just get busier and busier, right?
Because you’re, I think you’re always worried, you know, is the phone going to stop ringing? But I think that, you know, it was just like I mentioned earlier about, really kind of digging deep and trying to find somebody who we felt had the right personality to, you know, obviously they have to have skills, but it’s not just about skills. There has to be, it also has to be a personality thing. And it has to be the right type of person to practice family law as well. I mean, just for all those reasons I said earlier, you know, it’s not, it’s a different type of client. You’re dealing with people who are at their worst. And so you need somebody who can understand that and
Davina: Stay calm under pressure.
Kristen: Right. Exactly.
Davina: Right. So tell me, what is next for you? What is your, what are, are you guys planning on having a, being in business 40 years? Or, you’re continuing to grow and expand the firm?
Kristen: Yeah, I think we would like to expand the firm. As, you know, if we can continue to grow our mediation practice and hire, you know, another associate and who knows, maybe another associate, one of the things that we’ve talked about too is for all of these years, we’ve rented office space. And we’ve been throwing around the idea lately of maybe trying to buy a building, which would kind of be, in my mind, that’s like the next thing. That’s a, you know, another
Davina: That’s a good big goal.
Kristen: Yeah, yeah, that’s a big goal. And, you know, when you look back at all of the years we’ve been here and how much we’ve paid in rent, it makes you sick. But
Davina: I was talking with another older attorney and, a man, and he was saying that that’s really part of your retirement scheme as an attorney is to buy your building, have your building so that when, you know, when you’re ready, you could sell that building and right now it’s part of your, you know,
Kristen: Yeah, that’s what we talked about Yeah, right. It’s like another level. So that’s Yeah, I don’t know if that’ll be a year or two down the road, but that’s something
Davina: On the horizon. Yeah. And do you got, I mean, you know, it’s interesting because you’re definitely growing a traditional firm. And, you know, a lot of attorneys now are doing virtual or remote working and things like that. But is there, you know, is there a draw for you for kind of creating this traditional firm? I mean, I imagine you were greatly influenced by the same person who influenced you to be an attorney, you know?
Kristen: Yeah, sure. You know, we’ve talked about that, you know, with all the technology available and having, you know, whether or not you need to come into the office every day and you don’t need to, clients don’t know, necessarily need to know where you are when you’re talking about them.
But there’s something about the camaraderie, you know, when you’re in the same space and, you know, you have a conundrum that comes up in one of your cases, and being able to walk to the office next door down the hall and run it by, you know, another attorney and kind of have that back and forth. And, you know, I think we all enjoy that. So, you know, not that’s not to say that we have the, one of the things that I really love about being self-employed is having the flexibility to go on vacation. And if I need to still talk to clients and, you know, so we can do that, obviously, with remote access and all that good technology.
But there’s something about, you know, I talked to other, you know, that’s kind of the difference too. You know, when you decide you’re going to be a solo, true solo, or you want to have a small firm. You know, I talk, I have friends who are true solos. And that’s one of the things that they mentioned is, you know, having, getting out and talking to other professionals and having somebody to bounce ideas off. And so I think we probably will always maintain, you know, an actual office and come to work every day. And,
Davina: Yeah, it’s nice to gather with people and have work in that shared purpose. So if you’re all driven by the mission, and excited about it, and enjoy what you’re doing and all that. It’s nice to be able to come together daily and do that.
Kristen: Yeah, yeah, I think so too. And I think it’s good, you know, it’s good for making sure we’re all on the same page. You know, when we’re here every day together, and we’re making changes to our systems or processes and we’re all doing it together and it’s kind of like we’re a team, you know?
Davina: Right, right. Before we, I meant to ask you a question earlier and I forgot that we were talking about your speaking earlier. And that’s, you know, you love getting out in front of people and talking about family law and, you know, the practice of law, things like that. What I meant to ask you, what do you think your secret is for sort of getting speaking engagements? I know a lot of attorneys, I know a lot of women law firm owners and women lawyers would love to speak more and they struggle with getting those, you know, cultivating those opportunities. What do you think that you do that sets you apart?
Kristen: I think it’s getting involved. And so I, we have a, Troy, Michigan is in Oakland County and we have a very active Oakland County Bar Association. They have lots of different committees and you can, you know, there’s practice management committees and family law committees and alternative dispute resolution. Getting involved in those types of organizations and committees, those are the places where those speaking engagements come up.
You know, a local, you know, AARP or something once to have a lawyer talk about something, they contact the Bar Association. So if you’re involved in that, then you become aware of those types of situations. You know, they’re always looking for somebody, it’s been my experience, to talk, to speak to a group. In Michigan, we have a mandatory State Bar Association and we have different sections, a family law section, and I serve the family law council. And that’s an elected position.
And same thing, it’s by being involved in that organization when something comes up and somebody needs a speaker, whether it’s to speak to a group, that’s who those people are looking for a speaker go to that organization and say we need somebody. So by being a part of that group, when somebody says, Oh, hey, is anybody available to speak on this day at this, you know, we’re doing a seminar on family law for new lawyers. Is anybody interested? I sign up, you know? So I think it’s a, I think it’s twofold. I think you have to get involved so that you’re in the place where people are looking for speakers and I think then you have to
Davina: Raise your hand.
Kristen:Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Davina: Yeah, I think that’s great advice. That’s great. So, before we wrap up here, I just wanted to ask you if you could share, you know, being together with a partner for almost two decades is really an accomplishment and having your successful firm and I really congratulate you on that. That’s so fabulous. So can you share maybe for those women law firm owners who are a little further back of the road and aspire to do what you’ve done, can you share with them some wisdom or lessons learned or advice that you might have that maybe you wish somebody had told you?
Never Be Afraid to Ask for Guidance
Kristen: Sure. I think the number one thing would be to take advantage of the wisdom and experience of the other women who have come before you. It’s been my experience that if you reach out and ask a more experienced woman lawyer, she’s happy to help. She’s happy to, you know, I, that, I have been the recipient of that good advice. And I think people sometimes are afraid they don’t, especially lawyers, I feel like they don’t want people to know that they don’t know. So they there’s a sense of I don’t want this more experienced lawyer to know that I have a question about A, B, C, or D.
But that, get rid of that because, you know, whenever I have a younger lawyer, and it really was my experience, too. As I was coming up and growing my practice, I had some really great mentors that were, would help me. I felt comfortable picking up the phone and calling them and saying, What do I do about this? You know, what, you know, how would you handle this? And whether it’s a legal related question or a business-related question, you know, what do you do, how do you go about billing and what programs are you using?
And, you know, I really think that women want to help other women. And, but you gotta ask. So I, you know, that would be my biggest piece of advice is don’t be afraid to talk to somebody who, you know, even if you, you know, it’s just an acquaintance, you know, I would be happy anytime somebody calls me and says, you know, hey, Kristin, you know, I’ve met you at such and such Bar event and I was just wondering if you could give me a piece of advice. I’m happy to do that. And I think a lot of women lawyers are happy to do that for up and coming women lawyers.
Davina: Right. I love that. I think that’s wonderful advice and you hit the nail on the head when you said, you know, a lot of younger lawyers or less experienced lawyers, you know, like we have to keep up this persona, that we are, you know, bosses and we know everything, but they don’t call it practice of law for nothing, you know?
Kristen: So true.
Davina: There’s no way that you can know everything. I mean, I’m sure next week, there’ll be a case that comes into your office, you be like, Oh, I haven’t seen that before. You know, the facts are always gonna be a little bit different.
Kristen: That’s right. It happens all the time, where we’re like, oh, my gosh, I thought I’ve seen everything but this is new.
Davina: That’s what keeps it interesting, though. That’s what makes it interesting. It gives you those great stories, you know, like that you admired so much when you were a child, the attorney in your life, you know, he had all these great stories, and now that’s you, right?
Kristen: Right. That’s right. That’s exactly right. Yeah.
Davina: Yeah. Thank you. Well, thanks so much for being here today. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation. And I think that our audience is really going to enjoy it too. Why don’t you tell us how we can find you, find the firm connect with you if we want to connect with you on social media?
Kristen: Sure. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure. The easiest way to find me is on our website, and that’s www.mellinrobinson.com. I’m also on LinkedIn. And just Kristin L. Robinson. Those are the, probably the easiest ways to catch me.
Davina: Wonderful. Wonderful, Kristin. Thanks so much. And I really appreciate you being here.
Kristen: Thank you.